I am a little leery of most "extracts" of anything, including fish oil. The fish oil I've gotten is often rancid. But there have been numerous cases where an "extract" of something just didn't work like the whole food did or became harmful in isolation. The problem is with the idea of taking a healthy thing and trying to package it into pill to sell it, I think. It takes a lot of history with a food to know how to properly handle it. I think "chili extract" in the form of adobo is plenty healthy, but I wouldn't buy a "cayenne extract" pill.
But I think there is more to the story about fish than the oil. The proteins in fish and eggs are rather different than those in meat. Specifically, in terms of weight loss, they are higher in methionine, which is a protein that seems to help regulate appetite. Also they have a different form of sialic acid ... the type of sialic acid in meat is inflammatory for most humans.
--
Heather Twist
http://eatingoffthefoodgrid.blogspot.com/
My take is basically what Price did: look at the populations of people, and see which ones are the healthiest. The fish and egg eaters are by far the healthiest, followed by poultry and dairy. I couldn't actually find ANY healthy population of red-meat eaters. Most of the nomadic peoples who have cows/sheep/goats, drink the milk and only rarely eat meat. So I tried to find some older people who grew up on grass-fed meat around here (there are some, it's cow country). The grass-fed meat eaters that are older, mostly have heart problems, arthritis, Parkinsons. The older folks who ate mainly eggs (because they raise their own chickens, mainly) are more spry and healthy and tend to be skinnier. The older folks who eat mainly fish are mainly Japanese or Korean, and they look great too.
Anyway, the Vietnamese, Koreans, Japanese, Polynesians ... all ate mostly fish, traditionally, even in hot sunny climates. And were outstandingly healthy and thin. Still are until they get American cuisine. So I think it's worth experimenting. Fish is rather affordable here, but in any case, there is so little waste with it, and it is so filling, that I don't end up eating huge amounts of it. I get a package of "seafood mix" at Costco, frozen, and just toss a handful into my Tom Yum soup. One bag costs like $20, but it lasts a week or more. The Asian stores have fish at reasonable prices too.
Eggs are even more affordable. The "farm" local eggs usually go for $4-$5 a dozen. I have chickens so I'm not sure what they really cost, since I have to buy chicken food, but they also eat our garbage and make great plant manure.
Worth experimenting with anyway. It's true that the polyunsaturated fats are the ones that get deposited under your skin, either O6 or O3, depending on what you eat. Saturated fat can't be used under skin because it would get solid, just like it would on a fish. Even pigs keep the saturated fat internal to the pig, not under the skin. But like I said, the cultures that eat a LOT of fish are not the ones with high levels of skin cancer or skin conditions of any kind.
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:47 AM, RickS <no3rdseat@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Heather-
That's a good question. While I'm not sure it's true that people who eat fish are smarter and healthier (it could be that smart and healthy people read more and choose to eat more fish??) I eat mostly ruminants for a couple of reasons.
I get grass fed beef for $5.99 a pound from my local rancher and fresh fish around here that's not farm raised is between $12.00 and $20.00 a pound.
I've been reading lately about how fish have a large ratio of Omega-3 mostly because it acts as a sort of antifreeze. Fish live in waters that can be as cold as 30 degrees F. If they contained a larger quantity of saturated fat, they would stiffen in the cold water and die. So the O3 oils in fish are an adaptive reaction to cold climates. Fish oils tend to oxidize very quickly at 98.6 degrees and can create many more free radicals than fats from ruminants who live in the same climates as humans. Lard and butter are stable and solid at room temperature. Fish oil can be refrigerated and it's still liquid.
Vegetable oils would likely be very healthy, but they're hydrogenated and made to be liquid at room temperature and not oxidize. The problem with this whole scenario is that your body makes cell membranes primarily from Omega-6 and saturated fats. When we use hydrogenated vegetable oils to build cell membranes the same thing that keeps the oils from oxidizing in the bottle, keeps the cells from properly being able to respire and it causes cancer, heart disease, and many other problems. This is not to say that occasional fish can't be part of a good diet, but too much oxidized fish oil in the diet can be as bad as trans fats.
For years I have had what I thought was IBS or some similar condition. After I started reading Professor Peskin's research, I quit taking fish oil that I had been taking for a decade. Guess what? My symptoms completely cleared up. So now I try to stay away from fish. There seems to be a good body of research showing that fish and fish oils may not be as good as we thought.
http://www.greenhealthwatch.com/newsstories/newsdiet00/bspcaseagainst.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By8icw-ua8g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SYlEuRnVg&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KOfPAuupgc&feature=relmfu
-Rick
--- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, Heather Twist <HeatherTwist@...> wrote:
>
> I'm curious though. Why the emphasis on beef? If you look at the world
> cuisines, the ones that focus on fish and eggs, produce the healthiest
> people. Historically, humans mostly lived by the sea and ate a lot of fish.
> Today, people who eat more fish are smarter and healthier. The sialic
> profile is better too, in fish and eggs. French and Italians and Japanese
> that eat more fish ... are healthier. And yet the health gurus focus on
> beef?
>
> I do get grass-fed beef, btw. By the cow. So I'm not anti-beef by a long
> shot. It's just that the fish and eggs seem to work better. I'm trying to
> figure out why.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:01 PM, RickS <no3rdseat@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Barnaby-
> >
> > I tend to stock my freezer with grass fed beef from a local rancher. I've
> > had several e-mail exchanges with Professor Peskin and he says as long as
> > some of my meat is raw (inside) I'm getting all of the omega 3's and
> > unadultrated omega 6's I need. Though heat does easily damage O6. But on
> > the days I cook ground beef, I usually use 2 tsp cold pressed, organic,
> > raw, safflower or hemp oil for the O6 and 1 tsp cold pressed, organic, raw
> > flax seed oil. I get them from the local Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, or my
> > local co-op. They have to be cold pressed, raw, and organic- generally in
> > the refrigerated section. Whole Food's 365 brand is usually pretty good
> > and not too expensive. On days when I can't stand the thought of choking
> > down the hemp seed oil and I eat a bowl of fully cooked ground beef, I have
> > a small supply of raw, organic pumkin seeds. Ten grams of raw pumkin seeds
> > can provide the O6 and O3 that you need for a full day. One page I read
> > that sort of lays it out pretty concisely can be found here:
> >
> >
> > http://www.greenhealthwatch.com/newsstories/newslatest/latest0701/omega-3-overdosing.html
> >
> > "If you want to get your PEFAs from food, (liquids) five grams of organic,
> > cold-pressed, high linoleic sesame oil plus two grams of organic,
> > cold-pressed flaxseed oil a day, or (solids) 10gm of raw, organic pumpkin
> > seeds a day should do the job. "
> >
> > -Rick
> >
> >
> > --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, "barnabywalker" <barnabywalker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I appreciate the info provided by Rick regarding his experimentations.
> > >
> > > I had read the earlier Peskin work because I was interested with Omega 3
> > and it's benefits regarding dementia as i take care of my 80 plus year old
> > parents. At my Mom's neurologist today, I asked him if he had any other
> > ideas of non-prescription item which could help them, as the earlier
> > recommendation of St. John's wort (anti-depressant) had been a great help
> > for an inexpensive herbal product. He recommended that I give them a T of
> > coconut oil every day and seemed to be very enlightened to recommend
> > something beyond the the pricey alzheimer's drugs of Namenda and Exelon
> > Patch and then gave me 5 weeks of Patch samples.
> > >
> > > The Dr. said, "they can't make money off of coconut oil", which I took
> > as stating the pricey Alzheimr's drugs probably weren't much more effective
> > than the $8 /quart coconut oil I get at Kroger's.
> > >
> > > After reading Peskin' warning about fish oil, I wonder where Rick is
> > sourcing his Hemp oil, Pumpkin seed oil, as Omega 3 supplements?
> > >
> > > I continue to be a big fan of fasting combined with low carb to keep
> > insulin levels low as suggested by Gary Taubes.
> > > A very good article:
> > >
> > http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/06/why-the-campaign-to-stop-america-s-obesity-crisis-keeps-failing.html
> > >
> > > Barnaby
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, "RickS" <no3rdseat@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm glad you don't take fish oil. If you have some time, here's why:
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.brianpeskin.com/BP.com/publications/2011-Fish%20Oil%20Fallacies.pdf
> > > >
> > > > -Rick
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I don't currently take fish oil supplements, but that's a good
> > suggestion. I do take coconut oil.
> > > > >
> > > > > Susie
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Heather Twist
> http://eatingoffthefoodgrid.blogspot.com/
>
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