Fast-5 Diet and Lifestyle: [fast5] Re: Hitting the wall

I'm on day 3 of FF. This is my second attempt in two years. I know that the way my body naturally stores fat (low metabolism, genes) - I will need to incorporate exercise soon. On my first attempt on FF I stopped losing -then got discouraged, and even afraid to overdo it with exercise. Knowing myself, when I get going, my tendency is to do too much too soon too too fast....so I put the breaks on quick the first time.

Now, that's a good point about listening to your body. This time, Day 3 feels much like day 10. I'm thinking, when your body needs a lighter day of exercise-do it. When it feels like it could handle a bit more, do that. I suppose the secret is to learn how to read yourself better.

--- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, Churyl Zeviar <churyl@...> wrote:
>
> I used to feel this way, too. It was all about not getting enough fat in
> my diet. Now I blend raw animal fat with broth in a blender, and feel so
> amazing! Avocado, nuts, coconut oil and dairy fat also help. But I was
> doing these when I was getting light-headed, and they weren't enough for
> me.
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 8:41 am, David wrote:
> > Hi Paul
> >
> > I've had a thought about your comment re feeling light-headed, as you
> > say you also did when low-carbing, and your feeling of weakness when
> > working out. I wonder if your muscles aren't (yet) storing enough
> > glycogen to power your strenuous workouts adequately? You probably need
> > more adaptation time to give your muscles the strong hint that they
> > need to suck it up when you make it available in your window, but you
> > might also consider upping your carbs a bit, at least for a while, to
> > see if this has any effect. I do sometimes wonder whether the low-carb
> > approach is best when there is a high level of daily demand for muscle
> > glycogen - we know that racing cyclists and others who need both
> > endurance and burst strength tend to load up on carbs prior to
> > strenuous efforts.
> >
> > In my own case I eat a fairly modest amount of carbs for a Brit of my
> > generation - potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, fruit etc, but restricted to
> > what's possible within a fairly brief window. But at this stage my
> > muscles know to "come and get it" when it's available, and I can't
> > recall the last time I felt weak or "bonked" (in the American sense, I
> > hasten to add!)even after hard HIIT sessions or extended hikes etc.
> > This certainly didn't used to be true though, so some pretty
> > significant shifts have clearly occurred over time. I suspect they will
> > for you too.
> >
> > David
> >
> > --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, "Scaramouche" <scaramouche_54@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi David,
> >> Thanks for the informative post. I envy your ability to workout hard
> >> while fasting. I'd love to do "pure" FF all the time, but I'll
> >> probably
> >> have to break into it gradually. Although the first week went pretty
> >> well, I ended up feeling weak. I never get hungry when fasting, I get
> >> weak instead. Not good for the heavy (for me) workouts I'm doing now.
> >>
> >> You're absolutely right about your body sending very clear signals.
> >> Learned more about my reactions to food and exercise in 10 days than
> >> in
> >> the past 20 years. I'm amazed at how little food I can eat and still
> >> workout. The problem is, I don't feel comfortable enough with FF to do
> >> it daily. Yet.
> >>
> >> I'm doing a strength program that will be pretty intense very soon.
> >> Although I weathered a couple of workouts doing FF, I had to go
> >> slower.
> >> Also felt a bit lightheaded and in a somewhat "altered state". I used
> >> to
> >> get this on very low carbs. I don't have the confidence to haul heavy
> >> weights when I 'm not feeling 100% strong.
> >>
> >> So I'm adapting FF somewhat. I never eat breakfast anyway, so waiting
> >> until 12:30 or 1pm to eat is no problem. Then no calories until dinner
> >> (8pm or so). I'll also do two 24-hr fast days like in Eat Stop Eat.
> >> When
> >> I get used to this, I'll start adding FF fasting.
> >>
> >> I'm in no hurry. I've already gained valuable knowledge about how my
> >> body works. Especially the key to fat loss: eat less. . .a lot less.
> >> Duh! In my heart of hearts, I've always known this, but did not want
> >> to
> >> accept it. Thought I could get away with eating as much as I wanted
> >> and
> >> doing tons of exercise to burn off the excess calories. Problem is, my
> >> excess managed to stay just ahead of what I was burning. Even after 3
> >> years of running and heavyhands, I only lost 5 pounds--and still had
> >> handles. With FF I lost 5 pounds in 10 days, and doing a lot less
> >> exercise !!
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, David Nyman <david@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Paul
> >> >
> >> > I agree with a lot of Heather's observations, although I would add,
> >> from my
> >> > own experience, that adaptation is a key element too, and this may
> >> take some
> >> > time (you may recall my recent comments to this effect on your
> >> blog).
> >> Like
> >> > you, I exercise a fair amount most days, a lot of it with Heavyhands
> >> (again
> >> > like you, I think), and for the last few years of IF I've had no
> >> problem
> >> > doing this on my normal feeding schedule (these days about 21/3)
> >> even
> >> when
> >> > the amount of exercise is a good deal more extended than usual (say
> >> a
> >> day's
> >> > skiing, or climbing a "Munro"). Recently, I decided to drop my "set
> >> point"
> >> > a few pounds and consequently for the last couple of months have
> >> been
> >> > maintaining a calorie deficit of 500-750 a day, between exercise and
> >> > reduction of intake, as witnessed by a loss of about 1.5 lbs of fat
> >> > (according to my Tanita!) per week - about 12 lbs in total so far.
> >> During
> >> > this time I've been exercising about an hour a day, and had plenty
> >> of
> >> energy
> >> > for this and other daily activities, with no significant hunger
> >> pangs.
> >> I
> >> > don't make a fetish out of the carb/protein/fat calculations, but
> >> eat
> >> a mix
> >> > of fresh foods from all categories - meat, fish, eggs, potatoes,
> >> rice,
> >> > pasta, bread, salads, veggies etc.
> >> >
> >> > Now, if I go back ten years or so - "pre IF", there's no way I could
> >> have
> >> > done any of this. I was often hungry during the day, despite
> >> frequent
> >> > feeding, no matter what sort of physical activity I was engaged in,
> >> and
> >> > sometimes used to feel quite faint (for which my explanation was
> >> "low
> >> blood
> >> > sugar" and the consequent remedy to eat something sweet). My
> >> transition to
> >> > IF was achieved originally by moving to eating fruit and raw veg
> >> (mainly
> >> > carrots) during the day, simply because I was overweight and thought
> >> this
> >> > would be a neat way to reduce calories whilst staving off hunger
> >> pangs. So
> >> > it proved. But then I also found that I "forgot" to get hungry until
> >> later
> >> > and later in the day, until ultimately my bag of fruit lay untouched
> >> and I
> >> > conceived the idea of the evening eating window (I was sufficiently
> >> > pig-headed to value my ongoing experience over comments that this
> >> was
> >> > crazy).
> >> >
> >> > I can't remember exactly how long all this took, but it was
> >> certainly
> >> > several months. On the other hand, I wasn't really "end-gaining" at
> >> the
> >> > time, but rather experimenting to see if I could change my long-term
> >> > patterns and habits. I'm a computer guy, not a biologist, but it
> >> seems
> >> that
> >> > the body is capable of making very significant adjustments to its
> >> internal
> >> > regime as a consequence of the long-term pattern of demands we make
> >> on
> >> it,
> >> > and many if not most of the various "dramatic" short-term symptoms
> >> so
> >> much
> >> > discussed on this forum - often a consequence of pushing too hard,
> >> in
> >> my
> >> > view - are, in the end, insignificant, though very capable of
> >> upsetting the
> >> > apple-cart ("I just can't do this") if short-term "progress" is
> >> > over-valued. As Heather say, raised cortisol is sometimes a
> >> consequence of
> >> > initial fasting stress, but this should subside - my own resting
> >> heartrate
> >> > is 40-42 an hour or so after hard exercise, and it continues in this
> >> > leisurely way during fasts up to 24 hours or so. If a relaxed heart
> >> beat is
> >> > a pointer to low levels of physical stress, then this bears witness
> >> that any
> >> > initial excess of cortisol is a response to something unusual, and
> >> subsides
> >> > as the body adapts.
> >> >
> >> > So I guess I'm saying keep on keeping on, carefully evaluating how
> >> you
> >> > respond to various changes in your daily pattern of nutrition and
> >> > exercising, and bearing in mind that this is a journey that nobody
> >> is
> >> timing
> >> > but that is leading you ultimately towards a more functional and
> >> satisfying
> >> > balance of these factors. The journey, I've found, is itself an
> >> interesting
> >> > experience and you will inevitably learn things about yourself and
> >> your
> >> > potential that nobody on this board, or off it, could have told you.
> >> Do
> >> > keep us posted!
> >> >
> >> > David
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2010/1/21 Scaramouche scaramouche_54@
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks very much for your detailed reply, Heather. I was worried
> >> that
> >> > > something wonky was going on. I'm relieved that others have
> >> experienced
> >> > > these things, also. Even though I don't have that much weight to
> >> lose (maybe
> >> > > 10 lbs.), I'm feeling so good from fasting every day I don't want
> >> to
> >> stop
> >> > > unless I'm forced to. There are plenty of IF options, but I love
> >> the
> >> > > convenience of Fast-5. I'll just have to eat more at night and see
> >> how it
> >> > > goes.
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > > __________
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > My workout blog <http://hhpanaerobics.blogspot.com/>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, Heather Twist HeatherTwist@ wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > You might want to listen to your body. I've never worked out
> >> that
> >> hard
> >> > > > myself, but my spouse and daughter do. They work out very, very
> >> hard.
> >> > > > And often, then go into sugar craving mode. And eat sugar. And
> >> it
> >> > > > hasn't hurt them one whit. My guess is that their glycogen
> >> stores
> >> are
> >> > > > just empty and need to be refilled. Healthy sugars/starches are
> >> > > > obviously better than junk, but workouts use up a lot of
> >> glycogen.
> >> In
> >> > > > non-workout mode, your body uses up mostly fat. But in workout
> >> mode,
> >> > > > it can use up mostly glycogen.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The headache/brain fog mode though, is often just excess
> >> cortisol.
> >> > > > It's a hormone, and it makes you feel lousy. You can sometimes
> >> trick
> >> > > > your body into producing adrenaline or insulin to counteract it
> >> ... a
> >> > > > little bit of exercise, a little food, something acidic (lemon
> >> juice
> >> > > > or vinegar). For some reason just plain lettuce works for me,
> >> though
> >> > > > it takes 15 minutes or so for it to take effect.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > As for thirst, I find that generally when my body is losing
> >> weight
> >> or
> >> > > > changing shape. It can also mean you need more electrolytes,
> >> esp.
> >> if
> >> > > > you are on a low-salt diet (hard workouts with low salt can
> >> cause
> >> > > > major problems for some people). What Fast-5 seems to do more
> >> than
> >> > > > anything is enable people to hear what their bodies are saying.
> >> For
> >> > > > people who don't use many calories and are carrying too many,
> >> that
> >> > > > means their appetite will decrease. But for people who need
> >> calories,
> >> > > > or protein, or water ... it means appetite for these things
> >> might
> >> > > > increase. Your body has an extremely accurate chemistry set
> >> built
> >> > > > right in, and a lot of your nervous system is built to encourage
> >> you
> >> > > > to consume the things that are needed. It's sending you
> >> messages!
> >> Try
> >> > > > listening to it and see what happens.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Scaramouche scaramouche_54@
> >> wrote:
> >> > > > > Hello everyone,
> >> > > > > I'm on day 10 and experienced what I call "hitting the wall"
> >> this
> >> > > morning. I'm 55, quite active and in good shape from lifting
> >> weights, biking
> >> > > to work, cardio and aikido twice a week. Since starting FF, I've
> >> cut
> >> way
> >> > > back on my workout intensity until I adjust.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Aside from day 4, I've been feeling generally very good.
> >> Workouts have
> >> > > been normal. Last night I had a bigger dinner than usual, but
> >> didn't
> >> eat
> >> > > anything out of the ordinary. So far, so good.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > But this morning I woke up with major brain fog, headachy and
> >> a
> >> bit
> >> > > nauseous. I tried to ignore it, but before leaving for work I just
> >> HAD to
> >> > > eat. Felt immediately better after eating a bit. Was okay for the
> >> morning,
> >> > > but ate my normal small lunch as a precaution anyway. Then I began
> >> to feel
> >> > > normal.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > When I got home after work I began craving sugar like mad.
> >> This
> >> is
> >> > > totally not normal for me. I don't like sweets. Ate a couple of
> >> fruit rolls,
> >> > > a handful of chocolates and some chocolate spread on crackers.
> >> Followed that
> >> > > with cheese and a couple more crackers. Dinner was a medium-sized
> >> steak, a
> >> > > huge serving of whole wheat pasta and a glass of wine. This is a
> >> LOT
> >> of food
> >> > > for me; at 5'5" and 137 lbs. I'm not a big person and normally do
> >> not eat
> >> > > this much. And the sugar craving is totally abnormal for me. I
> >> rarely eat
> >> > > cookies, cake, chocolate, etc.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Has anyone else had a similar problem? I'm a little worried
> >> about
> >> > > fasting tomorrow. Breakfast won't be a problem. I never eat it
> >> anyway. But
> >> > > maybe I should ease into the full 19-hour fast more slowly. Or
> >> just
> >> not fast
> >> > > every day. I've also been very thirsty all the time since starting
> >> FF (like
> >> > > with a low carb diet). Any thoughts?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Cheers,
> >> > > > > Paul
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ------------------------------------
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Heather Twist
> >> > > >
> >> > > > www.dunkers.us
> >> > > > Kraut: the easy way!
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>