Fast-5 Diet and Lifestyle: [fast5] Re: Hitting the wall

Hi Paul

I've had a thought about your comment re feeling light-headed, as you say you also did when low-carbing, and your feeling of weakness when working out. I wonder if your muscles aren't (yet) storing enough glycogen to power your strenuous workouts adequately? You probably need more adaptation time to give your muscles the strong hint that they need to suck it up when you make it available in your window, but you might also consider upping your carbs a bit, at least for a while, to see if this has any effect. I do sometimes wonder whether the low-carb approach is best when there is a high level of daily demand for muscle glycogen - we know that racing cyclists and others who need both endurance and burst strength tend to load up on carbs prior to strenuous efforts.

In my own case I eat a fairly modest amount of carbs for a Brit of my generation - potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, fruit etc, but restricted to what's possible within a fairly brief window. But at this stage my muscles know to "come and get it" when it's available, and I can't recall the last time I felt weak or "bonked" (in the American sense, I hasten to add!)even after hard HIIT sessions or extended hikes etc. This certainly didn't used to be true though, so some pretty significant shifts have clearly occurred over time. I suspect they will for you too.

David

--- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, "Scaramouche" <scaramouche_54@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi David,
> Thanks for the informative post. I envy your ability to workout hard
> while fasting. I'd love to do "pure" FF all the time, but I'll probably
> have to break into it gradually. Although the first week went pretty
> well, I ended up feeling weak. I never get hungry when fasting, I get
> weak instead. Not good for the heavy (for me) workouts I'm doing now.
>
> You're absolutely right about your body sending very clear signals.
> Learned more about my reactions to food and exercise in 10 days than in
> the past 20 years. I'm amazed at how little food I can eat and still
> workout. The problem is, I don't feel comfortable enough with FF to do
> it daily. Yet.
>
> I'm doing a strength program that will be pretty intense very soon.
> Although I weathered a couple of workouts doing FF, I had to go slower.
> Also felt a bit lightheaded and in a somewhat "altered state". I used to
> get this on very low carbs. I don't have the confidence to haul heavy
> weights when I 'm not feeling 100% strong.
>
> So I'm adapting FF somewhat. I never eat breakfast anyway, so waiting
> until 12:30 or 1pm to eat is no problem. Then no calories until dinner
> (8pm or so). I'll also do two 24-hr fast days like in Eat Stop Eat. When
> I get used to this, I'll start adding FF fasting.
>
> I'm in no hurry. I've already gained valuable knowledge about how my
> body works. Especially the key to fat loss: eat less. . .a lot less.
> Duh! In my heart of hearts, I've always known this, but did not want to
> accept it. Thought I could get away with eating as much as I wanted and
> doing tons of exercise to burn off the excess calories. Problem is, my
> excess managed to stay just ahead of what I was burning. Even after 3
> years of running and heavyhands, I only lost 5 pounds--and still had
> handles. With FF I lost 5 pounds in 10 days, and doing a lot less
> exercise !!
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, David Nyman <david@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Paul
> >
> > I agree with a lot of Heather's observations, although I would add,
> from my
> > own experience, that adaptation is a key element too, and this may
> take some
> > time (you may recall my recent comments to this effect on your blog).
> Like
> > you, I exercise a fair amount most days, a lot of it with Heavyhands
> (again
> > like you, I think), and for the last few years of IF I've had no
> problem
> > doing this on my normal feeding schedule (these days about 21/3) even
> when
> > the amount of exercise is a good deal more extended than usual (say a
> day's
> > skiing, or climbing a "Munro"). Recently, I decided to drop my "set
> point"
> > a few pounds and consequently for the last couple of months have been
> > maintaining a calorie deficit of 500-750 a day, between exercise and
> > reduction of intake, as witnessed by a loss of about 1.5 lbs of fat
> > (according to my Tanita!) per week - about 12 lbs in total so far.
> During
> > this time I've been exercising about an hour a day, and had plenty of
> energy
> > for this and other daily activities, with no significant hunger pangs.
> I
> > don't make a fetish out of the carb/protein/fat calculations, but eat
> a mix
> > of fresh foods from all categories - meat, fish, eggs, potatoes, rice,
> > pasta, bread, salads, veggies etc.
> >
> > Now, if I go back ten years or so - "pre IF", there's no way I could
> have
> > done any of this. I was often hungry during the day, despite frequent
> > feeding, no matter what sort of physical activity I was engaged in,
> and
> > sometimes used to feel quite faint (for which my explanation was "low
> blood
> > sugar" and the consequent remedy to eat something sweet). My
> transition to
> > IF was achieved originally by moving to eating fruit and raw veg
> (mainly
> > carrots) during the day, simply because I was overweight and thought
> this
> > would be a neat way to reduce calories whilst staving off hunger
> pangs. So
> > it proved. But then I also found that I "forgot" to get hungry until
> later
> > and later in the day, until ultimately my bag of fruit lay untouched
> and I
> > conceived the idea of the evening eating window (I was sufficiently
> > pig-headed to value my ongoing experience over comments that this was
> > crazy).
> >
> > I can't remember exactly how long all this took, but it was certainly
> > several months. On the other hand, I wasn't really "end-gaining" at
> the
> > time, but rather experimenting to see if I could change my long-term
> > patterns and habits. I'm a computer guy, not a biologist, but it seems
> that
> > the body is capable of making very significant adjustments to its
> internal
> > regime as a consequence of the long-term pattern of demands we make on
> it,
> > and many if not most of the various "dramatic" short-term symptoms so
> much
> > discussed on this forum - often a consequence of pushing too hard, in
> my
> > view - are, in the end, insignificant, though very capable of
> upsetting the
> > apple-cart ("I just can't do this") if short-term "progress" is
> > over-valued. As Heather say, raised cortisol is sometimes a
> consequence of
> > initial fasting stress, but this should subside - my own resting
> heartrate
> > is 40-42 an hour or so after hard exercise, and it continues in this
> > leisurely way during fasts up to 24 hours or so. If a relaxed heart
> beat is
> > a pointer to low levels of physical stress, then this bears witness
> that any
> > initial excess of cortisol is a response to something unusual, and
> subsides
> > as the body adapts.
> >
> > So I guess I'm saying keep on keeping on, carefully evaluating how you
> > respond to various changes in your daily pattern of nutrition and
> > exercising, and bearing in mind that this is a journey that nobody is
> timing
> > but that is leading you ultimately towards a more functional and
> satisfying
> > balance of these factors. The journey, I've found, is itself an
> interesting
> > experience and you will inevitably learn things about yourself and
> your
> > potential that nobody on this board, or off it, could have told you.
> Do
> > keep us posted!
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/1/21 Scaramouche scaramouche_54@
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks very much for your detailed reply, Heather. I was worried
> that
> > > something wonky was going on. I'm relieved that others have
> experienced
> > > these things, also. Even though I don't have that much weight to
> lose (maybe
> > > 10 lbs.), I'm feeling so good from fasting every day I don't want to
> stop
> > > unless I'm forced to. There are plenty of IF options, but I love the
> > > convenience of Fast-5. I'll just have to eat more at night and see
> how it
> > > goes.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > __________
> > >
> > >
> > > My workout blog <http://hhpanaerobics.blogspot.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, Heather Twist HeatherTwist@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You might want to listen to your body. I've never worked out that
> hard
> > > > myself, but my spouse and daughter do. They work out very, very
> hard.
> > > > And often, then go into sugar craving mode. And eat sugar. And it
> > > > hasn't hurt them one whit. My guess is that their glycogen stores
> are
> > > > just empty and need to be refilled. Healthy sugars/starches are
> > > > obviously better than junk, but workouts use up a lot of glycogen.
> In
> > > > non-workout mode, your body uses up mostly fat. But in workout
> mode,
> > > > it can use up mostly glycogen.
> > > >
> > > > The headache/brain fog mode though, is often just excess cortisol.
> > > > It's a hormone, and it makes you feel lousy. You can sometimes
> trick
> > > > your body into producing adrenaline or insulin to counteract it
> ... a
> > > > little bit of exercise, a little food, something acidic (lemon
> juice
> > > > or vinegar). For some reason just plain lettuce works for me,
> though
> > > > it takes 15 minutes or so for it to take effect.
> > > >
> > > > As for thirst, I find that generally when my body is losing weight
> or
> > > > changing shape. It can also mean you need more electrolytes, esp.
> if
> > > > you are on a low-salt diet (hard workouts with low salt can cause
> > > > major problems for some people). What Fast-5 seems to do more than
> > > > anything is enable people to hear what their bodies are saying.
> For
> > > > people who don't use many calories and are carrying too many, that
> > > > means their appetite will decrease. But for people who need
> calories,
> > > > or protein, or water ... it means appetite for these things might
> > > > increase. Your body has an extremely accurate chemistry set built
> > > > right in, and a lot of your nervous system is built to encourage
> you
> > > > to consume the things that are needed. It's sending you messages!
> Try
> > > > listening to it and see what happens.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Scaramouche scaramouche_54@
> wrote:
> > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > I'm on day 10 and experienced what I call "hitting the wall"
> this
> > > morning. I'm 55, quite active and in good shape from lifting
> weights, biking
> > > to work, cardio and aikido twice a week. Since starting FF, I've cut
> way
> > > back on my workout intensity until I adjust.
> > > > >
> > > > > Aside from day 4, I've been feeling generally very good.
> Workouts have
> > > been normal. Last night I had a bigger dinner than usual, but didn't
> eat
> > > anything out of the ordinary. So far, so good.
> > > > >
> > > > > But this morning I woke up with major brain fog, headachy and a
> bit
> > > nauseous. I tried to ignore it, but before leaving for work I just
> HAD to
> > > eat. Felt immediately better after eating a bit. Was okay for the
> morning,
> > > but ate my normal small lunch as a precaution anyway. Then I began
> to feel
> > > normal.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I got home after work I began craving sugar like mad. This
> is
> > > totally not normal for me. I don't like sweets. Ate a couple of
> fruit rolls,
> > > a handful of chocolates and some chocolate spread on crackers.
> Followed that
> > > with cheese and a couple more crackers. Dinner was a medium-sized
> steak, a
> > > huge serving of whole wheat pasta and a glass of wine. This is a LOT
> of food
> > > for me; at 5'5" and 137 lbs. I'm not a big person and normally do
> not eat
> > > this much. And the sugar craving is totally abnormal for me. I
> rarely eat
> > > cookies, cake, chocolate, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone else had a similar problem? I'm a little worried
> about
> > > fasting tomorrow. Breakfast won't be a problem. I never eat it
> anyway. But
> > > maybe I should ease into the full 19-hour fast more slowly. Or just
> not fast
> > > every day. I've also been very thirsty all the time since starting
> FF (like
> > > with a low carb diet). Any thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Heather Twist
> > > >
> > > > www.dunkers.us
> > > > Kraut: the easy way!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>