Fast-5 Diet and Lifestyle: Re: [fast5] Re: Hitting the wall

I used to feel this way, too. It was all about not getting enough fat in
my diet. Now I blend raw animal fat with broth in a blender, and feel so
amazing! Avocado, nuts, coconut oil and dairy fat also help. But I was
doing these when I was getting light-headed, and they weren't enough for
me.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 8:41 am, David wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
> I've had a thought about your comment re feeling light-headed, as you
> say you also did when low-carbing, and your feeling of weakness when
> working out. I wonder if your muscles aren't (yet) storing enough
> glycogen to power your strenuous workouts adequately? You probably need
> more adaptation time to give your muscles the strong hint that they
> need to suck it up when you make it available in your window, but you
> might also consider upping your carbs a bit, at least for a while, to
> see if this has any effect. I do sometimes wonder whether the low-carb
> approach is best when there is a high level of daily demand for muscle
> glycogen - we know that racing cyclists and others who need both
> endurance and burst strength tend to load up on carbs prior to
> strenuous efforts.
>
> In my own case I eat a fairly modest amount of carbs for a Brit of my
> generation - potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, fruit etc, but restricted to
> what's possible within a fairly brief window. But at this stage my
> muscles know to "come and get it" when it's available, and I can't
> recall the last time I felt weak or "bonked" (in the American sense, I
> hasten to add!)even after hard HIIT sessions or extended hikes etc.
> This certainly didn't used to be true though, so some pretty
> significant shifts have clearly occurred over time. I suspect they will
> for you too.
>
> David
>
> --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, "Scaramouche" <scaramouche_54@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi David,
>> Thanks for the informative post. I envy your ability to workout hard
>> while fasting. I'd love to do "pure" FF all the time, but I'll
>> probably
>> have to break into it gradually. Although the first week went pretty
>> well, I ended up feeling weak. I never get hungry when fasting, I get
>> weak instead. Not good for the heavy (for me) workouts I'm doing now.
>>
>> You're absolutely right about your body sending very clear signals.
>> Learned more about my reactions to food and exercise in 10 days than
>> in
>> the past 20 years. I'm amazed at how little food I can eat and still
>> workout. The problem is, I don't feel comfortable enough with FF to do
>> it daily. Yet.
>>
>> I'm doing a strength program that will be pretty intense very soon.
>> Although I weathered a couple of workouts doing FF, I had to go
>> slower.
>> Also felt a bit lightheaded and in a somewhat "altered state". I used
>> to
>> get this on very low carbs. I don't have the confidence to haul heavy
>> weights when I 'm not feeling 100% strong.
>>
>> So I'm adapting FF somewhat. I never eat breakfast anyway, so waiting
>> until 12:30 or 1pm to eat is no problem. Then no calories until dinner
>> (8pm or so). I'll also do two 24-hr fast days like in Eat Stop Eat.
>> When
>> I get used to this, I'll start adding FF fasting.
>>
>> I'm in no hurry. I've already gained valuable knowledge about how my
>> body works. Especially the key to fat loss: eat less. . .a lot less.
>> Duh! In my heart of hearts, I've always known this, but did not want
>> to
>> accept it. Thought I could get away with eating as much as I wanted
>> and
>> doing tons of exercise to burn off the excess calories. Problem is, my
>> excess managed to stay just ahead of what I was burning. Even after 3
>> years of running and heavyhands, I only lost 5 pounds--and still had
>> handles. With FF I lost 5 pounds in 10 days, and doing a lot less
>> exercise !!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, David Nyman <david@> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Paul
>> >
>> > I agree with a lot of Heather's observations, although I would add,
>> from my
>> > own experience, that adaptation is a key element too, and this may
>> take some
>> > time (you may recall my recent comments to this effect on your
>> blog).
>> Like
>> > you, I exercise a fair amount most days, a lot of it with Heavyhands
>> (again
>> > like you, I think), and for the last few years of IF I've had no
>> problem
>> > doing this on my normal feeding schedule (these days about 21/3)
>> even
>> when
>> > the amount of exercise is a good deal more extended than usual (say
>> a
>> day's
>> > skiing, or climbing a "Munro"). Recently, I decided to drop my "set
>> point"
>> > a few pounds and consequently for the last couple of months have
>> been
>> > maintaining a calorie deficit of 500-750 a day, between exercise and
>> > reduction of intake, as witnessed by a loss of about 1.5 lbs of fat
>> > (according to my Tanita!) per week - about 12 lbs in total so far.
>> During
>> > this time I've been exercising about an hour a day, and had plenty
>> of
>> energy
>> > for this and other daily activities, with no significant hunger
>> pangs.
>> I
>> > don't make a fetish out of the carb/protein/fat calculations, but
>> eat
>> a mix
>> > of fresh foods from all categories - meat, fish, eggs, potatoes,
>> rice,
>> > pasta, bread, salads, veggies etc.
>> >
>> > Now, if I go back ten years or so - "pre IF", there's no way I could
>> have
>> > done any of this. I was often hungry during the day, despite
>> frequent
>> > feeding, no matter what sort of physical activity I was engaged in,
>> and
>> > sometimes used to feel quite faint (for which my explanation was
>> "low
>> blood
>> > sugar" and the consequent remedy to eat something sweet). My
>> transition to
>> > IF was achieved originally by moving to eating fruit and raw veg
>> (mainly
>> > carrots) during the day, simply because I was overweight and thought
>> this
>> > would be a neat way to reduce calories whilst staving off hunger
>> pangs. So
>> > it proved. But then I also found that I "forgot" to get hungry until
>> later
>> > and later in the day, until ultimately my bag of fruit lay untouched
>> and I
>> > conceived the idea of the evening eating window (I was sufficiently
>> > pig-headed to value my ongoing experience over comments that this
>> was
>> > crazy).
>> >
>> > I can't remember exactly how long all this took, but it was
>> certainly
>> > several months. On the other hand, I wasn't really "end-gaining" at
>> the
>> > time, but rather experimenting to see if I could change my long-term
>> > patterns and habits. I'm a computer guy, not a biologist, but it
>> seems
>> that
>> > the body is capable of making very significant adjustments to its
>> internal
>> > regime as a consequence of the long-term pattern of demands we make
>> on
>> it,
>> > and many if not most of the various "dramatic" short-term symptoms
>> so
>> much
>> > discussed on this forum - often a consequence of pushing too hard,
>> in
>> my
>> > view - are, in the end, insignificant, though very capable of
>> upsetting the
>> > apple-cart ("I just can't do this") if short-term "progress" is
>> > over-valued. As Heather say, raised cortisol is sometimes a
>> consequence of
>> > initial fasting stress, but this should subside - my own resting
>> heartrate
>> > is 40-42 an hour or so after hard exercise, and it continues in this
>> > leisurely way during fasts up to 24 hours or so. If a relaxed heart
>> beat is
>> > a pointer to low levels of physical stress, then this bears witness
>> that any
>> > initial excess of cortisol is a response to something unusual, and
>> subsides
>> > as the body adapts.
>> >
>> > So I guess I'm saying keep on keeping on, carefully evaluating how
>> you
>> > respond to various changes in your daily pattern of nutrition and
>> > exercising, and bearing in mind that this is a journey that nobody
>> is
>> timing
>> > but that is leading you ultimately towards a more functional and
>> satisfying
>> > balance of these factors. The journey, I've found, is itself an
>> interesting
>> > experience and you will inevitably learn things about yourself and
>> your
>> > potential that nobody on this board, or off it, could have told you.
>> Do
>> > keep us posted!
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2010/1/21 Scaramouche scaramouche_54@
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thanks very much for your detailed reply, Heather. I was worried
>> that
>> > > something wonky was going on. I'm relieved that others have
>> experienced
>> > > these things, also. Even though I don't have that much weight to
>> lose (maybe
>> > > 10 lbs.), I'm feeling so good from fasting every day I don't want
>> to
>> stop
>> > > unless I'm forced to. There are plenty of IF options, but I love
>> the
>> > > convenience of Fast-5. I'll just have to eat more at night and see
>> how it
>> > > goes.
>> > >
>> > > Paul
>> > >
>> > > __________
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > My workout blog <http://hhpanaerobics.blogspot.com/>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- In fast5@yahoogroups.com, Heather Twist HeatherTwist@ wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > You might want to listen to your body. I've never worked out
>> that
>> hard
>> > > > myself, but my spouse and daughter do. They work out very, very
>> hard.
>> > > > And often, then go into sugar craving mode. And eat sugar. And
>> it
>> > > > hasn't hurt them one whit. My guess is that their glycogen
>> stores
>> are
>> > > > just empty and need to be refilled. Healthy sugars/starches are
>> > > > obviously better than junk, but workouts use up a lot of
>> glycogen.
>> In
>> > > > non-workout mode, your body uses up mostly fat. But in workout
>> mode,
>> > > > it can use up mostly glycogen.
>> > > >
>> > > > The headache/brain fog mode though, is often just excess
>> cortisol.
>> > > > It's a hormone, and it makes you feel lousy. You can sometimes
>> trick
>> > > > your body into producing adrenaline or insulin to counteract it
>> ... a
>> > > > little bit of exercise, a little food, something acidic (lemon
>> juice
>> > > > or vinegar). For some reason just plain lettuce works for me,
>> though
>> > > > it takes 15 minutes or so for it to take effect.
>> > > >
>> > > > As for thirst, I find that generally when my body is losing
>> weight
>> or
>> > > > changing shape. It can also mean you need more electrolytes,
>> esp.
>> if
>> > > > you are on a low-salt diet (hard workouts with low salt can
>> cause
>> > > > major problems for some people). What Fast-5 seems to do more
>> than
>> > > > anything is enable people to hear what their bodies are saying.
>> For
>> > > > people who don't use many calories and are carrying too many,
>> that
>> > > > means their appetite will decrease. But for people who need
>> calories,
>> > > > or protein, or water ... it means appetite for these things
>> might
>> > > > increase. Your body has an extremely accurate chemistry set
>> built
>> > > > right in, and a lot of your nervous system is built to encourage
>> you
>> > > > to consume the things that are needed. It's sending you
>> messages!
>> Try
>> > > > listening to it and see what happens.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Scaramouche scaramouche_54@
>> wrote:
>> > > > > Hello everyone,
>> > > > > I'm on day 10 and experienced what I call "hitting the wall"
>> this
>> > > morning. I'm 55, quite active and in good shape from lifting
>> weights, biking
>> > > to work, cardio and aikido twice a week. Since starting FF, I've
>> cut
>> way
>> > > back on my workout intensity until I adjust.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Aside from day 4, I've been feeling generally very good.
>> Workouts have
>> > > been normal. Last night I had a bigger dinner than usual, but
>> didn't
>> eat
>> > > anything out of the ordinary. So far, so good.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But this morning I woke up with major brain fog, headachy and
>> a
>> bit
>> > > nauseous. I tried to ignore it, but before leaving for work I just
>> HAD to
>> > > eat. Felt immediately better after eating a bit. Was okay for the
>> morning,
>> > > but ate my normal small lunch as a precaution anyway. Then I began
>> to feel
>> > > normal.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > When I got home after work I began craving sugar like mad.
>> This
>> is
>> > > totally not normal for me. I don't like sweets. Ate a couple of
>> fruit rolls,
>> > > a handful of chocolates and some chocolate spread on crackers.
>> Followed that
>> > > with cheese and a couple more crackers. Dinner was a medium-sized
>> steak, a
>> > > huge serving of whole wheat pasta and a glass of wine. This is a
>> LOT
>> of food
>> > > for me; at 5'5" and 137 lbs. I'm not a big person and normally do
>> not eat
>> > > this much. And the sugar craving is totally abnormal for me. I
>> rarely eat
>> > > cookies, cake, chocolate, etc.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Has anyone else had a similar problem? I'm a little worried
>> about
>> > > fasting tomorrow. Breakfast won't be a problem. I never eat it
>> anyway. But
>> > > maybe I should ease into the full 19-hour fast more slowly. Or
>> just
>> not fast
>> > > every day. I've also been very thirsty all the time since starting
>> FF (like
>> > > with a low carb diet). Any thoughts?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Cheers,
>> > > > > Paul
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ------------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Heather Twist
>> > > >
>> > > > www.dunkers.us
>> > > > Kraut: the easy way!
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>