On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 7:08 AM, free2bmekeywest <dogdoright@aol.com> wrote:
ME: Price had a bias toward seafood. But, he also was a proponent of butter and dairy. He found that a very specific type of butter had health benefits that were almost miraculous.
But times have changed and the sea is not as pure as it was back then.
The land is not as pure either. Grass gets polluted by leaded gas fumes
and mercury in the rain (from coal plants), and some of the places
cows graze were used in the past for all kinds of things. And they have
a habit of swallowing things like whole nails, bullet casings, and barbed
wire.
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> Fish and ruminant animals are VERY different when it comes to nutrition.
> Fish protein, for example, has been shown to lower blood pressure. Fish fat
> is the kind that builds good brain tissue. Vit D is found in fish liver (and
> is probably the reason people could live so far north where there wasn't
> much sun) ... which is why Price recommended cod liver oil as a supplement.
ME: You can get the same effects from eating pastured animals and eating their glands.
OK, let's back up a little here. My original statement was that many people in the US
especially, define a "meat" as basically muscle meat from ruminants, and define
a high-protein diet or paleo diet mainly in terms of that "meat". I said that
"meat" in that definition, does not have all the nutrients a person needs (and
there is some evidence it's not the best protein structure too). I said that a person
eating "vegetarian" in a sense that includes dairy, eggs, or fish can get a
perfectly good diet.
So what you are saying is basically the same thing: you CAN get all the
nutrients ... if you redefine "meat" to also include dairy, eggs, and organ
meats. I totally agree: it is possible to get a decent diet on inland foods
if you work at it. (although as a side note: the "healthy Swiss" who ate
all that healthy butter, also had iodized salt. Before 1919, up to 1/6 of
the Swiss recruits were turned down for service because of goiter. That
was solved by sending iodized salt up to the Swiss valleys, which was
before Price's study).
It's nice to have choices though. You can choose to eat some adrenal
glands and eyeballs .... I'll have mine as a plate of fried shrimp and
steamed clams.
ME: You are wrong. Cultures that consume high amounts of refined carbs have problems with weight, degenerative diseases and reporduction.
Right. Except, say, most of Asia. Chinese and Japanese are skinnier (and live longer) than folks in the US, even when they eat the same amount of calories and get the same amount of exercise. And they do eat mainly white rice.
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>
> I mean, it's been shown that human beings can survive without them, sure,
> mainly because people eating very low carb (like the Inuit) learn to create
> sugars from proteins (which is also what carnivores do).
ME: The human body does not need to create sugar from fat/proteins. Our bodies can use fat/protein as it is.
The brain wants glucose. Animals that eat only lean proteins ... like bobcats, say ... routinely
synthesize glucose from protein, they don't go into ketosis. Inuit do the same
thing. The body CAN do ketosis, but it doesn't, long term.
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But we can also
> create fats out of starches. Personally I think the whole "fat/carb/protein"
> ratio is overhyped, because human beings are good at swapping between fats
> and carbs, and we have only limited capacity to eat protein.
ME: None of what you have written is true-it is simply your opinion.
Most unbiased research supports the high-carb vegan/vegetarian eating is not optimum for people. It is not an eating plan that generates healthy old people.
Except, say, for the research on old people in Japan and Okinawa.
STicky VegeTableS
We ate a lunch at the Home Town of Long Life
market and cafe where foods typical of the area are
prepared. The traditional diet in Yuzurihara is varied.
We ate nine different small-portioned dishes at our
lunch which included fish from a local stream, boiled
potatoes with miso paste (a dish called tamaji), dark
purple sweet potato, millet rice, specially prepared
daikon radish, buckwheat noodles, red onions, a
Japanese-style bun stuffed with azuki bean paste, and
a newly introduced sticky vegetable which originated
from Egypt and is now grown in Yuzurihara called
moloheiya which is known to be rich in iron and
calcium. Meat was absent (there is no meat market in
Yuzurihara).
RESULTS: On average, Chinese in China consumed more calories (males 2904 kcal in China, versus 2201 kcal in North America; females 2317 Kcal in China, versus 1795 Kcal in North America and more carbohydrate, but less fat (males 72.2 g in China versus 84.5 g in North America, females 56.6 g in China versus 70.8 g in North America), protein, vitamin A, beta-carotene and vitamin C than did Chinese in North America. Per cent calories from fat was 35% for Chinese in North America and 22% for Chinese in China. In contrast, the per cent of calories from carbohydrates was 62-68% in China and 48% in North America. Chinese in China reported spending more time in vigorous activity, sleeping and walking but less hours in sitting than Chinese in North America. Chinese in China weighted less and were leaner than North American Chinese.
(In another study, they paired men that got similar exercise, and the Chinese businessmen STILL ate more and were thinner than their American counterparts).
Where is the research on low-carb mostly-muscle-meat centenarians?
I've been looking for an example but have yet to find one.
So far you haven't provided any references to actual studies.
None of the documented cultures with healthy
old folks are low carb, that I've been able to find. Maybe you
can do better.
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